Transgender, part 1 "Oh, I thought a man was coming"

Even at a young age, Jenny, Lena and Nadia felt like girls, even though they were brought up as boys. A conversation in two parts about their lives, coming out as "trans" and the courage to fight for their own rights.

This interview first appeared on "blue News" on February 4, 2020. We are republishing it to mark the current occasion - the start of Pride in Zurich under the theme "Living trans diversity".

Jenny, Lena and Nadia, when did you all realize that your outer appearance didn't match your inner identity? Or to put it another way: when did you realize that you were "trans" ?

Lena: I didn't know what "trans" was for a long time. When I started wearing women's clothes from time to time as a teenager, I initially had the feeling that I had a fetish. It was only over the years that I realized: I feel like a woman and I am a woman.

Nadia: As a child, I discovered things that I found exciting but which were not made accessible to me, then I was told: that's not possible, it's not for you.

What things are you talking about?

Nadia: I'm talking about toys - I didn't dare try clothes or jewelry as a child. I shyly signaled my interest because I felt inside that this wouldn't go down well with my parents. At the same time, it made me wonder why I wasn't allowed to play with it. At some point, I got the idea that there might be something wrong with me.

What happened next?

Nadia: At the age of ten, I set out on a concrete search: What is that? What name does it have? Back then, 40 years ago, it was difficult to get such information.

Jenny: You don't immediately realize whether you are "trans". At some point I sensed that something was different - beautiful and urgent. I was irritated and very insecure. At first, I didn't know what it was and how to deal with it. Many people are probably familiar with this feeling: You feel, you search - and at some point, often after a lot of resistance, you find and feel comfortable and in good hands. Before that, however, I thought for a long time that I was the loneliest person in the world.

You have all lived in public as men for decades ...

Jenny:... that's not quite true: we were read as men by the public for decades.

How did you come out?

Jenny : Slowly and steadily.

Nadia: For me, there were different stages of coming out. First came committing to people who thought similarly. The bigger step was then coming out to my family and friends. The very first time I told my best friend, with whom I had been through thick and thin at the time, was 25 years ago. I knew all his secrets, he knew mine. I chose him because I was sure it would be good if I told him first.

How did your boyfriend react?

Nadia: Almost euphorically, which was very nice.

Coming out is not an easy step.

Nadia: Yes - until I was ready, I always had a guilty conscience, but at the same time I felt like I had everything under control. In other words, if I didn't want the trans issue, it wasn't there. This turned out to be a fallacy. I felt - the longer the more - a force inside me: if I opposed it, it hurt. If I surrendered to it, it felt right. I felt more and more that I was on the right path and that I had to tell my family and friends.

What terms do you use today to describe yourself?

Lena: I'm a trans woman, that says it all really.

Jenny: I am also a trans woman.

Nadia: For me, transgender is the most general, most beautiful term. It's an English word, but it has become established as a factual and non-judgmental descriptor.

The abbreviation LGBTIQ is used in English to refer to lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, intersex and queer. Sometimes an A+ is added so that asexual people also feel included. Sounds pretty complicated, doesn't it?

Lena: It might be complicated for a normal cis person when they hear the term for the first time.

Nadia: For me, it's very honorable that the "T" has now been added to this abbreviation. In the beginning, it only consisted of two letters - LG, for "lesbian" and "gay". It was only over the years that the B and T were added. I remember well when Klaus Wowereit, who was then the governing mayor of Berlin, used the term LGBT for the first time during his speech at Pride in Zurich in 2007. I cringed with awe and joy.

Was that the signal for you that the term had arrived in society?

Nadia: On the one hand, it has arrived in society, but on the other hand it is also better anchored in the community.

Jenny: For a long time, gay and lesbian people had to hide and were not allowed to stand out. The Stonewall riots in New York City in 1969 did a lot of good - and it was all triggered by trans people of color! The gays and lesbians used the momentum afterwards. It took a little longer for us trans people, but now we are here and visible. Today I feel that we are part of society. And that's a good thing.

Where and when did the three of you meet?

Lena: Jenny and I have known each other for 15 years, Nadia a little less. Jenny and I met for the first time at a transgender meeting of the association "Girls wanna have fun", GWHF for short, in Wangen an der Aare.

Nadia: In the days before the internet, it was quite difficult to meet like-minded people. Although there were already groups and clubs, registration was complicated - communication was usually via a PO box address. With the Internet, our community has become more lively.

Is there a scene for trans people in Switzerland or even bars and clubs like those for gays and lesbians?

Lena: I don't know of any bars or restaurants that are exclusively frequented by trans people. However, there are regulars' tables in various places where we meet regularly.

Jenny: I think it's good that there are no places explicitly just for trans people. We see ourselves as part of society and want to be visible everywhere and be able to go anywhere.

Nadia: I think it would be nice if there was a place like that, but our target group might be too small for a transgender bar. Personally, I feel very comfortable in the queer community.

The great media interest in trans people has prompted the Transgender Network Switzerland (TGNS) to create a media guide. Was this created because trans people are often misrepresented in the media?

Jenny: The guide is intended to be helpful. It shows trans people what they should look out for so that they are taken seriously and not misrepresented or even hurtfully portrayed. And it helps the person asking to understand and ask carefully.

Lena: Many people still don't know the difference between "drag queen" and "transgender". This leads to misunderstandings time and again, so that trans people feel hurt. It's good that this guide exists.

Nadia: There are words about "trans" that we like to hear. And there are words that we don't like to hear. Sometimes it's just one letter that turns a word into a bad word.

I assume you're talking about the word "tranny" ...

Nadia: ... that word is an absolute no-go.

Lena : When I was sitting in a bar, I've also been asked if I was on my way to a stag party. Instead of feeling offended, I try to strike up a conversation with people in these situations. These are opportunities that I gladly take and that have often led to wonderful conversations. Yes, I want to be read as a woman in everyday life. Anyone who ignores that deeply insults me. When I came out to my long-term business partner a few years ago, she asked me: What should I do now?

What did you say?

Lena: You don't have to do anything, I'm still the same person. I just want you to call me Lena from now on and refer to me as a "she".

Jenny: For me, the female pronoun is very important. There are also trans people who don't want a pronoun. I admit that sometimes it's not easy. But I think it's important that we respond to such requests.

Are you now out in your private and professional life?

Lena: I'm not out in my family and I'm partially out at work. I work in culture, and because my free time is also culturally oriented, I can't control who I meet. However, it's okay for me that many people in my professional environment know me as Lena, but also as a male person.

Nadia: In my private life, I am a female person. At work, when it comes to official tasks such as contract negotiations or signing contracts, I'm still a male person. Sometimes, however, I let it slide a little, depending on how much I like and trust people. And when I'm out and about as a man and someone says "Oh, I thought a man was coming", that's a nice compliment of course. It shows that I am also perceived as female as a man.

Jenny: I don't want to answer that question like that. It's not clear to me what exactly it's about. The question is much more: what triggers an outing? In other words, what do I want to achieve with it? Does it help me, does it free me, does it take me further? What are the dangers of coming out or what forces me to do so? So we trans people are supposed to come out so that we can live as we are. I find that strange. You would never ask a cis person that.

At some point, the day came when Nadia suddenly sat in the chair. How did you come up with your female name?

Nadia: It was a long process. Interestingly, I didn't give myself a female name as a child. Later, I started trying out and evaluating different names. It's nice to be able to choose your own name. I can't remember exactly how I finally came up with Nadia. But when I first committed to a group by e-mail, I knew that I had to give myself a female name.

Jenny: When I came out for the first time many years ago, the person asked: "And what's your name?" I remained silent because I couldn't think of an answer. Then I went home, where the name "Jenny" jumped out at me. I liked it straight away, the story behind the name suited me, it sounded nice and I felt comfortable.

Lena: Before I attended a transgender meeting for the first time, I went to a beautician. She specialized in advising transgender people and had a large stock of wigs, among other things. At some point she said to me: "And what's your name?" I was taken aback and asked: "What do you mean now?" Then she replied: "You're a woman now and you need a woman's name." I didn't give her an answer straight away, but took some time to choose a female name.

What were the positive experiences during your coming out?

Nadia: I experienced a lot of positive things. After this long game of hiding, life suddenly came crashing down on me. Doors opened, I got to know lots of new people who I didn't know existed. There were many positive wows, far more than negative ones. Realizing that my fear was unfounded was a liberating blow for me.

Lena: It was similar for me. There were all the new things that came along and that was great. But even more important were all the friends who knew me as a man and gave me even more depth after coming out.

Jenny: For me, the positive thing was also in myself: in the security and the joy - and also in the pride that my inner strength increased and that I came closer to myself.

When is a woman a woman?

Lena: That's a good question. For me, I can answer it like this: I was born a man, and I know what that feels like. I don't know what else a CIS woman feels like. But I definitely know that what I am doesn't feel like a man.

Would you like people to perceive you as a woman or a trans woman?

Jenny: As a woman.

Lena: I would say that too.

Nadia: As a female being.

Jenny: Sorry, I stand corrected: I want to be perceived as a human being.

So basically, do trans women have a harder time than trans men?

Nadia: The first steps are possibly easier for trans men because they are less noticeable. The first steps from male to female are rather unpleasant because you have physical characteristics that can only be corrected and polished off later. Medical adjustment, on the other hand, is more intense for trans men than for trans women. As far as the voice is concerned, I was always a bit envious of trans men because it's easier for them. But that's my personal feeling and it would of course be presumptuous to say that it's easier or more difficult for one or the other.

Jenny: I don't think that we trans women have it more difficult than trans men. In terms of the process that everyone goes through individually, there are more difficult and easier moments for everyone. And another thing: I am a human being. That excludes this social view of how you have to be and how you don't have to be. That's why I answer your question like this: I like looking at people. I like people. And I like being in contact with people. Without a preference for one gender.

They say that trans people go througha kind of second puberty. Not just a physical one, i.e. through any hormone therapy, but also through what they have to relearn: What are the codes among women? Are there rules in the changing room? How do you look at each other? Who taught you all this?

Lena: I was mostly with girls at elementary school. And my friends were always girls who were more into feminine types. So I've always known how it all works.

Nadia: I was always extremely repulsed by these male codes. Conversely, I was very interested in women's codes. My second puberty was like the one I tried to hint at earlier: You start with zero self-confidence and zero experience. Some of these are hard-earned "apprenticeships" where you get to know great people who teach you important details. For example, how a woman walks: I was taught this in a training session in the middle of the night in Zurich between two streets.

How difficult is it to deal with the authorities when changing your name or gender?

Lena: It has become easier in the canton of Zurich - you just have to fill out a form.

Nadia: However, you have to differentiate between the identity on the identity card and that on the birth certificate. The residents' registration office can decide on the first change. For the second, you still need a medical certificate and a court order. Many things have become much simpler in recent years, but there is still a great deal of arbitrariness when it comes to court decisions. We know, for example, that the district court in Zurich handles them very moderately, while a few kilometers further north the authorities are much more conservative. The fees also vary.

So does your passport still have your male name on it?

Nadia: Yes.

Jenny: I was assigned a name and a gender at birth. I don't think either is appropriate anymore.

Why don't you change?

Lena: That will come later.

Jenny: Since it's so progressive in the city of Zurich, I feel encouraged to do it soon.

Nadia: Step by step - I'm not the fastest at this sort of thing, but maybe I'll manage it one day.

Part two of the interview with Jenny, Lena and Nadia can be found here.

About the author: Bruno Bötschi