TV professor Harald Lesch "This obvious madness scares me"

Do fate and the soul exist? TV professor Harald Lesch devotes himself to existential questions. But the political situation leaves him speechless. A conversation about scientific skepticism, activism - and aliens.

Mr. Lesch, what do you think about when you wake up in the morning: your breakfast, the political situation or sometimes the big existential questions?

I usually think about my family in the morning. The first thought is often: how nice that everyone is healthy - and let's see what the day brings. All you can say about the world situation now is ballaballa, I don't even need to discuss that. We can only hope that many of the madmen currently active in the world will somehow disappear.

What does this escalating political and social situation do to you?

As someone who is very well trained in rational thinking, you feel a bit alien on planet Earth at the moment. It has become so difficult because you can no longer really analyze what is currently happening. It's hidden in irrationality, behind a strange fog of a lot of grievance. Psychology plays a major role - and I'm not familiar with it. I can no longer assess why people do this.

Can you give an example?

For example, I can't understand why Putin attacked Ukraine. If I were him, I would have launched a charm offensive towards Europe. I also don't understand what Trump is doing with his tariffs. And I find it worrying when experts on US policy just shrug their shoulders and don't know what else to say. When experts can no longer explain what is happening. That worries me. This obvious madness frightens and worries me.

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How do you view the situation in Germany? Were you annoyed that the issue of climate protection was virtually absent from the German parliamentary election campaign?

Of course, there is another way of looking at it. There is a second story behind the silence of politicians: namely that a lot is happening. Otherwise we wouldn't have more and more renewables in the electricity sector. You suddenly see photovoltaic systems on all kinds of roofs, you see balcony power plants and wind turbines where you didn't see any before. Regardless of all the talk, something is happening.

What is it?

That renewable energies are so much better in terms of efficiency and costs. Of course, there are the big screamers who don't want it and the quiet complainers who think it's ugly. And then there are those who do it. This happens without society noticing much of it. For example, I've had an electric car for a while now and I'm surprised by the network of charging stations. When you think there are none, there are actually some.

What does that mean for heated debates like the one about climate change?

Perhaps it would be good if factual issues disappeared from politics.

Really?

Yes, because they actually need to be clarified by experts. And not by politicians, who are essentially concerned with interests and not with content.

How realistic do you think such expert commissions are? At the moment, the opposite seems to be the case worldwide ...

Of course, that shows how naive I am. But I simply allow myself this naivety. It can also be a position from which you can see a little more. Instead of always staying in the mire of practicality. Naivety is a kind of flying position: what would be possible if it were nicer and better? I believe that it is better for society if we retain this political naivety in the sciences.

What would be better about that?

If we want to advise on content, then we can't restrict ourselves at the same time because we believe that one politician or another won't listen to us anyway. I just go there like the fool at the king's court (laughs). And then I say: "The second law of thermodynamics applies to you just as much as it does to your political opponent." Nature is not a party member. I'm sticking to that - especially as it's also a bit funny and provocative, as a foreign body in these political discourses of opinion.

In view of the current debates, shouldn't science get more politically involved?

If I publish a paper on why nuclear power is too expensive and inefficient, then that is already interfering in the political debate. But, even if I am always suspected of having a green agenda: I only drive the agenda of thermodynamics. Energy has no color. And if it did, it would probably be rainbow-colored.

You've often been called an activist ...

For me, the term activist is a compliment. When someone asks me if I am one, I always ask them back: "Why aren't you?" Actually, we should all be activists if the world is the way it is. We should have a considerable interest in making it better. Or maybe it's because of my nature that I'm called that ...

You mean your approachable demeanor?

Maybe I come across as too likeable. I'm not a haggard person and I'm not at a loss for a joke. And I have so many different methods that even some people who don't like me at all find it nice (laughs). But I also strive to be generous and cheerful. Just to be a pleasant person to be around. That's all I want.

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In your TV shows, you always incorporate your own experiences and embed them in your stories, a bit like around a campfire ...

I am a storyteller. If you had met me in the Middle Ages, I would have sat in the marketplace and told stories (laughs).

But when you look back on the last few years and the increasing skepticism towards research: Has your approach to making science television changed?

There are always phases when I sit there and can't say anything. When I'm completely blank in the face of the accusations, the harshness of the discussion and the inflexibility of the positions. The scientific principle is: if a fact does not confirm a theory, then the theory is wrong. End of the announcement. And then people still cling to it ...

So you can only remain speechless?

I recently had an encounter with a subway driver who said to me: "Mr. Lesch, nice to see you, I love your shows. But there's one thing we don't agree on: sphere or disk?" Of course the Earth is a sphere, I replied. He denied that. I was stunned. And that's another funny example, there are of course these very hard and unpleasant variants. And that has increased over the years.

What surprises you most about it?

How many personalities one person can contain! They use technology and therefore science in its basic form. And at the same time they believe in magical things. Rose quartz, globules and stuff like that. That has increased. I'm more speechless, but I also have to smile more.

In your TV programs, you nevertheless tirelessly enlighten people. Do you also base your choice of topics on relevant current debates?

Relevant topics always oscillate strongly, of course. One thing is immediately followed by the next. As a science journalist, it is important to me to scour the entire scientific landscape as far as possible and make it accessible on television or online. I always have Aristotle standing next to me with the sentence: "The beginning of science and philosophy is wonder." That's what drives me: The remarkable - in other words: that it is worth being noticed.

Is it another level for you when you devote yourself to the big questions instead of political and everyday topics, as you have done in your current three "Terra X" episodes?

The big questions are actually anthropological constants. We can't really answer them. They are asked again and again in every generation and in every era. And then there are new references to one or the other. And we also show things that are truly unbelievable - and yet have been proven in scientific experiments. I couldn't believe it!

In the programs, you address questions about the existence of the soul, fate and extraterrestrials. If someone could answer one of the questions immediately, which one would you like to ask?

I would like to know if there is a soul. For individual destiny - because that's already in there - that would certainly be the biggest thing: if there really was a human soul - wow! The aliens, on the other hand, are far away, we are safe from them.

Besides, if they've been watching us long enough, they won't come here anyway. They're talking on the phone all over the Milky Way about how ballaballa we are (laughs)...

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