Found an error?
Report now
"No man buys me. I sell a service, but never myself. My guests don't take anything from me - especially not my body": fetish lady Karo.
Image: zVg
She has been working as a sex worker for 25 years. In this interview, fetish lady "Dame Karo" talks about social prejudices, her marriage, difficult terms such as "client" - and why the biggest problem in her profession is not the men.
Fetish Lady Dame Karo (45) was born in Belarus and studied economics when capitalism took hold after the fall of communism. The time was wild and uninhibited: "I was young and pretty. I went to parties, danced, drank and smoked. The men liked to invite me."
After doing odd jobs in a brothel in Poland, she met a management consultant 20 years her senior. The two fell in love, married and moved to Switzerland. At her husband's request, Karo quits sex work.
The marriage lasts five years, then Karo leaves her husband. She then worked as a bartender and later as a croupière in a casino before returning to the erotic industry.
Today, Karo works as a self-employed sex worker, rents out rooms in Bubikon ZH and Davos GR to fellow professionals and trained as a dominatrix two years ago.
Fetish Lady Dame Karo, we're playing a question and answer game today: I will ask you as many questions as possible over the next 45 minutes. And please answer as briefly and quickly as possible. If you don't like a question, you can also say "Next" once.
Okay, I'm ready.
Zurich or Bern?
I've lived in Switzerland for 25 years and in that time I've grown very fond of Zurich - the city has become my second home, so to speak. I'm rooted in Zurich and have many friends, including some from the techno scene.
City or country?
I like living in the city, but I don't want to live there anymore. That's why Bubikon in the Zurich Oberland is perfect for me.
blue News
blue News editor Bruno Bötschi regularly talks to well-known personalities from Switzerland and abroad for the question-and-answer game "Bötschi fragt". He asks them lots of questions - always direct, often funny and sometimes profound. It always remains open until the very last question as to where the fast-paced ping-pong will lead.
Client or customer?
I say guest. I don't like the word "punter" - just as little as "whore" or "prostitute".
What term do you prefer for your profession?
Sex worker or courtesan.
As a professional in the erotic industry, how can a person separate love and sex?
For me, they are two completely different things. Love doesn't necessarily have anything to do with sex. I've been married to a woman for two years, but we've known each other for much longer. And like many couples who have been together for years, we don't focus on sex, but on a deep friendship. Our intimacy today is more emotional and spiritual.
What do you like best about your job as a sex worker?
The self-determination. A classic nine-to-five job wouldn't be for me. I manage my time freely and work independently. What's more, my guests are very grateful people.
What annoys you?
The social rejection.
I assume you are addressing the prejudices that exist in society towards sex workers?
Yes, exactly - dealing with these prejudices and stigmatization is the most difficult thing in our profession.
What prejudices are you confronted with the most?
Many female colleagues have to lead a double life for years. Women with children in particular are often forced to keep their profession as a sex worker a secret. They are afraid of being excluded or stigmatized by society. I myself have only managed to change my environment in recent years so that today only people who know that I work as a sex worker belong to my circle of friends.
Have the prejudices against sex work increased or decreased in recent years?
I have the feeling that they have become less - although of course that could just be my personal perception. In my circle of friends, nobody says the word "sex worker" in a funny way anymore. Those around me accept me mainly because of my human qualities.
You fight against prejudice, speak out in the media and also speak on podiums. Why do you do that?
Sex work is legal in Switzerland and I can always say no if a guest doesn't respect my boundaries. The biggest problem is therefore not the men, but the prejudices in society. That's why we need people who publicly stand up for our rights.
What memories do you have of the very first man who booked your services as a sex worker?
That was very amusing.
Because the man was so good in bed or because he paid you so well?
Oh, you know, I was still young, 18 or 19. It was a nice club in Poland and we danced together. It almost felt like a spontaneous date, but it was clear to both of us that we wouldn't meet again and that I would also get paid for the date, so I thought it was doubly cool (laughs).
"I struggle with the idea that the majority of men basically want something bad for sex workers": fetish lady Karo,
Image: zVg
Is working as a sex worker a job like any other?
Yes and no. But a deep-sea diver or a surgeon also has an extreme job. Surgeons also get much more intimate with their patients than we do with our guests.
Opponents of prostitution refer to sex workers as victims - there is always talk of these women "selling their bodies".
This statement is not only wrong, but also disrespectful. I am not a victim, I am a woman who speaks four languages and studied economics. I have worked in various professions. But why shouldn't I work as a sex worker if that's where I'm most successful and can use my strengths?
And probably earn better too, right?
That's how it is. That's why the prejudices against us sex workers annoy me so much. I'm an adult woman and mature enough to pay taxes, drive a car and make my own decisions. So why should I be a victim for God's sake?
Not all women who work as sex workers in Switzerland do so voluntarily. There are victims of human trafficking in this country.
Of course I know that there are victims - and these women must be taken seriously. At the same time, I am convinced that the vast majority of women who work as sex workers do so voluntarily. However, I can and will only speak about my own experiences. Over the past 25 years, I have had an insight into a wide variety of businesses. During this time, I have never personally met a woman who worked as a sex worker against her will. If a person chooses this profession of their own free will, society should at least accept it.
How is sex work regulated in Switzerland today?
I think it is very well regulated - so I would say: please don't change anything. Of course, not everything is perfect, but I wouldn't immediately go on the barricades. On the whole, I would even say that Switzerland is one of the countries in Europe with the best legislation for sex workers.
What do you think of the Nordic model, where clients are criminalized?
I think it's a terrible mistake. In the end, this model harms sex workers in particular. And why criminalize adults who act with mutual consent?
In Sweden, where the Nordic Model was introduced in 1999, supporters say it has created a generation of men who can hardly imagine paying for sex and buying a woman.
But what does "buying a woman" even mean? I find this choice of words extremely problematic. No man buys me. I sell a service, but never myself. My guests don't take anything from me - and certainly not my body.
Former sex worker and current activist Huschke Mau says in an interview with "Blick":"Rejection is not part of prostitution. To summarize: clients are men who see women as farm animals."
I see it completely differently. Sex work is legal in Switzerland - and I decide for myself who can be my guest. A potential guest has to be respectful on the phone or by email, otherwise they won't even get my address. And I also expect good behavior on site. I struggle with the idea that the majority of men generally want to harm sex workers.
"Most of the sex workers I know don't want to work in fashion stores like H&M. There they would have to work much harder and longer - without daylight and for much less money": fetish lady Dame Karo.
Picture: zVg
As a sex worker, you have never been a victim of violence?
No. In the Spanish Netflix series "Sky Rojo", there is a scene in which a man beats a sex worker until she cries and then forces her to have oral sex. You know what, no normal man wants to put his penis in the mouth of a woman who is crying. That's just not cool.
The fact is: there are men who behave abusively towards women.
But you shouldn't pretend that most men are dangerous. Fortunately, the vast majority of men are not sociopaths or psychopaths.
Huschke Mau writes in her book "Entmenschlicht" (Dehumanized) that the majority of women in prostitution have a childhood trauma, i.e. they have experienced family violence, have been physically abused or sexually abused.
As I said before, I can only speak for myself - and this statement does not apply to me. I generally have a hard time with the claim that women go into sex work because they have experienced violence. Over the past 25 years, I have gotten to know a wide variety of life stories. There are such and such cases. But violence in childhood is not an automatic verdict for prostitution. Of course, some sex workers come from difficult family backgrounds. But that doesn't automatically mean that violence is the reason for their profession. I also know many sex workers who say they had a happy childhood.
You recently published the text "Not a victim, but an entrepreneur - how prostitution also means self-determination" on the website of your erotic salon. Why is the reality of prostitution more complex and diverse than critics of sex work often want to admit?
Because it's often about sensationalism. Four years ago, I read the book "Piff, Paff, Puff - Prostitution in Switzerland" and found many things in it to be simply wrong. The author claims, for example, that all sex workers would rather do a "normal job".
Is that not true?
Most sex workers I know don't want to work in fashion stores like H&M. There they would have to work much harder and longer - without daylight and for much less money.
As a sex worker, you've probably already had sex with a man you didn't want to have sex with in private. What does that do to you?
Well, my guests pay for a service and behave politely. A psychotherapist isn't friends with his clients in private either. And perhaps you, Mr. Bötschi, wouldn't want to talk to me in private either. This distance exists in every profession. For me, the condom makes all the difference. I see sex work as an extended form of massage. And by the way: for me, the most attractive quality in men is clearly good manners. Without respect and good manners, nothing works for me - and that's why I always take the liberty of refusing a guest.
How often has that happened?
Twice so far.
Were the two guests assaultive or otherwise indecent?
The two men just behaved strangely until I said at some point: "Honey, we don't have any chemistry together. It's better if you leave now."
What does a normal working day look like for you?
I usually sleep until around 10 o'clock. Then I have a leisurely start to the day, have a coffee and check my phone. Depending on whether I have any bookings from guests, I then prepare for the first session.
After the coronavirus pandemic, I thought about how I could develop further in my job - and then trained as a dominatrix: fetish lady Dame Karo.
Image: zVg
How many sessions do you have in a day?
Two to three - sometimes more at the weekend.
How long do these sessions last?
The minimum duration is one hour. However, most of my appointments tend to last three to four hours.
I interviewed you once before for blue News in 2021. How has your work and life changed since then?
After the coronavirus pandemic, I thought about how I could develop further in my job - and trained to become a dominatrix.
What clichés about the dominatrix profession did you have in your head before you became one?
I am an open-minded and curious person. At the same time, I was aware that I had no idea what the job of a dominatrix entailed. I therefore started my training without any clichés in my head.
What memories do you have of your first session as a dominatrix?
I didn't have my own BDSM room in my studio at the time, but I already had lots of different whips on offer. My first guest had a soft spot for whips - but it was still a leap in the dark for me. I had attended a whipping course shortly beforehand and felt well prepared. But I have to admit: The guest didn't come back afterwards. I probably wasn't that good at it after all (laughs).
How do you get into your role as a dominatrix - do you have any rituals for this?
We have a chat before every session. We clarify wishes, boundaries and the so-called traffic light system.
What is that?
The traffic light system in BDSM is a safety and communication system. Green means: everything is okay. Yellow: Attention, limit is approaching. And red means stop immediately.
I took a look at your fee list: Your prices start at 300 francs for an hour of soft eroticism and 350 for a BDSM session. What's left over at the end if you deduct room rental, preparation and unpaid acquisition?
I've never calculated it that precisely. But the fact is: because I'm self-employed, all the money stays with me. I would say I earn about as much as a good lawyer as a dominatrix.
How many of your guests are married or live in a supposedly monogamous relationship?
The majority live in a partnership. And I also assume that many partners don't know that their husbands are using the services of a sex worker.
Do you sometimes have scruples or a guilty conscience towards the partners who don't know?
Not really. I don't see myself in the role of judging other people's relationships. Partnerships and marriages are often much more complex than you can judge from the outside. Many men have fantasies or fetishes inside them that they might only want to experience once, without wanting to live them out permanently in their partnership. It's often more of a moment of curiosity or a specific fantasy - just like some people always go out to eat at a certain Japanese restaurant once a year. And I also believe that not every woman really wants to know or experience every fantasy of her partner.
Do fathers tend to come to you in the morning so that the wife at home doesn't get suspicious?
It varies, every guest has different preferences.
Are there also women who contact you - and send their partner over because they want him to feel good - as a birthday present, for example?
I've never experienced that (laughs).
"It's important to me to be able to communicate with a guest at eye level. That's why I deliberately made the text on my website a little more sophisticated, so that it appeals to exactly the kind of men who suit me." Fetish Lady Dame Karo.
Picture: zVg
Do you have a favorite customer?
Several, actually.
Because they're more fun or because they're so funny?
Let's put it this way: the chemistry is right - and these guests are usually very generous ...
... with the tips?
That's right (laughs).
Do you have a target group that you particularly appeal to?
My guests are between 45 and 70 years old. I have deliberately published a somewhat complicated text about myself and my preferences on my website - it works like a natural sieve.
What do you mean by that?
I am 45 years old and am now often categorized as a typical MILF, which mainly appeals to younger men. However, I myself am sapiosexual - I'm mainly attracted to intelligence. It's important to me to be able to communicate with a guest at eye level. That's why I deliberately formulated the text on my website in a more sophisticated way so that it appeals to exactly the kind of men who suit me.
Are there still BDSM bookings today that amaze you?
Oh yes, there still are - just recently a guest wanted me to use him as furniture.
Was he allowed to?
Yes, I always try to understand as much as possible and always learn something new.
How often do you turn down BDSM bookings?
If someone belittles me in the very first email, asks for sex without a condom or wants to negotiate the price, I reject the request. Jesus, we're not at a bazaar here.
Has your image of men changed as a result of your work as a dominatrix?
I have the feeling that my BDSM guests are more aware of their sexuality. Many are interested in prostate massages, for example - something that is still taboo in the classic sexuality of many heterosexual men.
It is possible that heterosexual men are afraid of a prostate massage because they believe they will be labeled as gay.
Exactly. But it has nothing to do with homosexuality. Men can experience incredibly intense orgasms.
Have you changed since you started working as a dominatrix?
I hope not.
Has your private sexuality changed as a result of working as a dominatrix?
Let's put it this way: I definitely have more skills and tricks up my sleeve these days.
Do you feel that your work is valuable to society?
Yes, definitely. If there was no demand, there would be no supply. That's why I find many discussions about banning sex work quite unrealistic, to be honest. You might as well try to ban the rain. Prostitution doesn't disappear - it simply shifts to dark corners. And that's where it becomes dangerous for women.
Do you think that the people who live in Switzerland have good sex?
To be honest, I don't think most people have good sex.
Bevorzugte Quelle
Jetzt kannst du blue News als deine bevorzugte News-Quelle auf Google hinterlegen.
Klicke auf den Button, setze das Häkchen hinter blue News – fertig!
